The opening of Meow Wolf is later today, so I may or may not be able to come by. -Arlo

I'm not going to pitch you much harder than to say I'll greet you warmly, but normal membership is $65/mo, founding members (coupon code FOUNDER) pay $50/mo for the first year. People who pay by the year pay for 10 months. Orientation (which is required to use the tools) also costs $10, and the first opportunity is on the 19th. There is a separate orientation to use the Rapid Prototyping tools (including the 3D printer) on the same day. Studio members elect to pay $110 or $200 for a desk space or a carrel w/ storage. I'm imagining desk space means that the area between two pieces of masking tape on a table is yours, but I'll report back tomorrow after I know for certain. Day passes are also available for $20. Tomorrow it'll be open to everyone (from 2pm to 8pm) which would be a great chance to examine the goods before shelling out. If you'd like my advice, sign up for a $10 orientation; you'll get a chance to meet the people involved, and you can buy a day pass when you decide you'd like something laser cut. Memberships: https://makesantafe.org/membership/ Founding memberships: https://makesantafe.org/become-a-founding-member/ Orientations: https://makesantafe.org/learn/ Tools: https://makesantafe.org/tools-and-equipment/ Cheers, Max On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:16 PM, <sam@thepromisedlan.org> wrote:

...

The opening of Meow Wolf is later today, so I may or may not be able to come by. -Arlo

Hey Arlo! Speaking of Meow Wolf, apparently Make Santa Fe is Grand Opening tomorrow and they're located at MW?

This was news to me when the email came out this week, but I don't pay _that_ much attention. Though I do see that there's much more info on the website than when I moaned about it a few months back. https://makesantafe.org/

Give us the insider scoop and hard pitch on joining this new maker space, I'm fairly excited that such a thing is happening, and would take at least some pride or pleasure in being a founding member, but the prices are not insignificant. What's the dollar number on the "big savings" they advertise for joining before tomorrow? Is there any interest in software freedom over there?

_______________________________________________ nmglug mailing list nmglug@lists.nmglug.org http://lists.nmglug.org/listinfo.cgi/nmglug-nmglug.org

The "studio" spaces were unfurnished cubicles, maybe 5' or 6' to each side. Desks were desks rather than being space between pieces of masking tape. Very cool space, they made all of their own furniture from plywood. On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 12:24 AM, Max Bond <max.o.bond@gmail.com> wrote:

Looking more carefully at the founding members page, it also promises discounts for future events and such.

On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 12:22 AM, Max Bond <max.o.bond@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I'm not going to pitch you much harder than to say I'll greet you warmly, but normal membership is $65/mo, founding members (coupon code FOUNDER) pay $50/mo for the first year. People who pay by the year pay for 10 months. Orientation (which is required to use the tools) also costs $10, and the first opportunity is on the 19th. There is a separate orientation to use the Rapid Prototyping tools (including the 3D printer) on the same day.

Studio members elect to pay $110 or $200 for a desk space or a carrel w/ storage. I'm imagining desk space means that the area between two pieces of masking tape on a table is yours, but I'll report back tomorrow after I know for certain.

Day passes are also available for $20.

Tomorrow it'll be open to everyone (from 2pm to 8pm) which would be a great chance to examine the goods before shelling out. If you'd like my advice, sign up for a $10 orientation; you'll get a chance to meet the people involved, and you can buy a day pass when you decide you'd like something laser cut.

Memberships: https://makesantafe.org/membership/ Founding memberships: https://makesantafe.org/become-a-founding-member/ Orientations: https://makesantafe.org/learn/ Tools: https://makesantafe.org/tools-and-equipment/

Cheers, Max

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:16 PM, <sam@thepromisedlan.org> wrote:

...

...

The opening of Meow Wolf is later today, so I may or may not be able to come by. -Arlo

Hey Arlo! Speaking of Meow Wolf, apparently Make Santa Fe is Grand Opening tomorrow and they're located at MW?

This was news to me when the email came out this week, but I don't pay _that_ much attention. Though I do see that there's much more info on the website than when I moaned about it a few months back. https://makesantafe.org/

Give us the insider scoop and hard pitch on joining this new maker space, I'm fairly excited that such a thing is happening, and would take at least some pride or pleasure in being a founding member, but the prices are not insignificant. What's the dollar number on the "big savings" they advertise for joining before tomorrow? Is there any interest in software freedom over there?

_______________________________________________ nmglug mailing list nmglug@lists.nmglug.org http://lists.nmglug.org/listinfo.cgi/nmglug-nmglug.org

Reply below quotes. On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 10:22 PM, Max Bond <max.o.bond@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 5:16 PM, <sam@thepromisedlan.org> wrote:

...

Hey Arlo! Speaking of Meow Wolf, apparently Make Santa Fe is Grand Opening tomorrow and they're located at MW?

This was news to me when the email came out this week, but I don't pay _that_ much attention. Though I do see that there's much more info on the website than when I moaned about it a few months back. https://makesantafe.org/

Give us the insider scoop and hard pitch on joining this new maker space, I'm fairly excited that such a thing is happening, and would take at least some pride or pleasure in being a founding member, but the prices are not insignificant. What's the dollar number on the "big savings" they advertise for joining before tomorrow? Is there any interest in software freedom over there?

I'm not going to pitch you much harder than to say I'll greet you warmly, but normal membership is $65/mo, founding members (coupon code FOUNDER) pay $50/mo for the first year. People who pay by the year pay for 10 months. Orientation (which is required to use the tools) also costs $10, and the first opportunity is on the 19th. There is a separate orientation to use the Rapid Prototyping tools (including the 3D printer) on the same day.

Studio members elect to pay $110 or $200 for a desk space or a carrel w/ storage. I'm imagining desk space means that the area between two pieces of masking tape on a table is yours, but I'll report back tomorrow after I know for certain.

Day passes are also available for $20.

Tomorrow it'll be open to everyone (from 2pm to 8pm) which would be a great chance to examine the goods before shelling out. If you'd like my advice, sign up for a $10 orientation; you'll get a chance to meet the people involved, and you can buy a day pass when you decide you'd like something laser cut.

Memberships: https://makesantafe.org/membership/ Founding memberships: https://makesantafe.org/become-a-founding-member/ Orientations: https://makesantafe.org/learn/ Tools: https://makesantafe.org/tools-and-equipment/

Cheers, Max

Honestly, the last time I was working for (volunteering for, now they have paid employees) MSF was last summer. Then I had a job from late summer to early winter, and then school started in the new year. So I am coming back in as a member, pretty much the same as any other; my insider scoop is about the size of a teaspoon. That said, I will offer my observations, since I was at the former Silva Lanes location, both in the House of Eternal Return and the adjacent rooms of the makerspace, yesterday and the day before that and the day before that (which is why it took so long to reply, I thank Max for jumping in with his thoughts in a more timely manner; I drafted this after only his first two emails). In fact, he has addressed most of your questions, I think, except the one about 'ware/culture freedom (and I want to add to some of his answers). First, I expect the price to go down as additional revenue flows for the 'space come online (if the history of Quelab and presumably other 'spaces nationwide are any indication, which I believe they will be). So perhaps sign up for a day pass (and see if you have a student ID somewhere, orientation is free and workshops are reduced with one; and of course signing up for a single cheap 1-credit-hour class at the Community College that you can switch to audit after signing up if you want gets you an ID) just to get all the prerequisites for constant access to the space besides the payment itself. Then wait for a need, for a rhetorical improved future state of disposable income, and/or for the price to go down and buy a month (or a year, for savings at the expense of needing to be able to dole out a lump sum) at a time. I asked a co-founder (which is an actual title, I do not count as a founder; this person is a board member too) and the two floor managers about using free distributions specifically. Zane, the co-founder, said that there is already a computer dual-booted as Windows / Linux (he did not specify), and a couple of dedicated Linux (again, generically stated) machines planned for the near future. When asked about transitioning over as the chances to find and switch to alternatives to the proprietary softwares currently being used (mostly in-house controllers for the commercial machines, like a jobs manager and print configuration utility for the small laser cutter, or Makerbot Desktop for the Replicator 2, but also workflow issues: the most painful was the use of CorelDraw for sending vectors to the cutter because 1. Corel Suite was already installed on that computer, even though one person at most is familiar with it and nobody is super comfortable with it, and 2. there is some weird behaviour with the aforementioned print configuration utility that makes it not play well with Inkscape (which I am basically comfortable/familiar with), but these issues seem not to arise with CorelDraw; they plan to get Creative Cloud [:(] to see what the sitch is for Illustrator (which the floor managers are comfortable/familiar with, although one, Amy, seemed to like what I had showed her of Inkscape). ), he was hesitant: Besides the dual-booted box, they are running OSX (some version) on the old flatscreen iMacs, and Windows 10 on assorted boxen (some rather swanky). The justification behind this is that people with encounter 'what they are used to', so they can just jump right in and use them; but most people will be learning new skills at the makerspace anyway, and I would think in a majority of *those* cases at least one new software (like Cura, which they thankfully also have; Zane is well aware of the free software movement and subsequent spinoffs [free hardware, culture, design, and data], and is even involved with a business based around OpenDesk, and agrees that it shares much 'philosophy' with the Maker movement). Why not start fresh with a uniform interface to a standard set of open interoperable programs? There are established (but also in flux, in many cases) workflows and toolchains using only free software that are often used by makers (if you are willing to accept that as a real title). Also, they want to make logins for members when they sign up, which will either have to be done on the fly or by a beleaguered employee, and while I hear Windows does have network-/sys-admin tools for this, and presumably Mac also, good luck getting them to work across the walls of the gardens. Not that it would be impossible, just unnecessarily annoying and fragile. Additionally, if they need to add or swap out computers (if one breaks or is otherwise out of comission for any important length of time, for instance), they will have to use bolted on tools for reinstalling all the needed software or again, more essentially wasted person-hours, whereas the APT or comparable system when combined with local network caching perfectly fulfills this requirement in a well-integrated way. Anyway, enough ranting to the preachers, the answer to the question of what is the makerspace's stance towards free software*, is: positive, but not dedicated due to baggage even at this early stage and in need of guidance either way (convinced they should commit or not, that is). *I know the question of terminology has been beat to glue and resurrected over and over *ad tedium*, but what do you think about the phrase "users' rights"? Like human rights, in that some of them are 'native' (sometimes referred to as 'inalienable', despite repeated demonstrations of alienation), and can and should be expanded upon. User does not necessarily denote 'end-user' in this context. -Arlo *PostScript*: Other GNU/Linux related happenings at Ol' Silva -- the study of one of the main "characters" in the House of Eternal Return has a computer in it, and it runs LXDE - somewhat kiosked, because they really want you to play with the files / launchers on the desktop which contribute to the story and atmosphere, but Control-Alt-Delete opens the Task Manager or whatever LXDE calls it. About one of the said launchers - it opens the terminal emulator, but the normal commands do not work, and suggested commands work weirdly (it suggests 'help', which further suggests the commands 'something', 'something', and 'something'...presumably a work in progress or just intentional uselessness?), I suspect some clever alias usage. Also, I told my friend's boyfriend, who I met the second day there, and who wanted to branch out from being a lifelong Macintosh user, about the GLUG - he seemed interested.

I have heard this before. The gist is as you say: effort will be wasted and people will get frustrated. And I understand that, I do: I think of the metaphor of driving in winter conditions. Let us say you are stuck by the side of the road. Gun the engine and you may end up just contact-melting and refreezing the ice, going nowhere and getting even less traction now that the ice is smooth and slick. But the metaphor has another component: just sitting there will not get you out either, even if you are fine with sitting in your heated truck. So you have to give a very slow and constant application of gas, perhaps rocking the vehicle if you are in a low spot, until you accelerate very gradually. Eventually you will be able to get where you were going. It is easy to give up on a lost cause, but this particular institution is a cause I do not think is lost, and is too promising for *me* (I am not asking anything of anyone on this list, just responding to a question) to just resign myself so early to the idea that when I go in, I will have to use a commercialised, privacy- and creativity-disrespecting, patience-trying encrustment of various binaries. I cannot just solve all the obstacles in one fell swoop, I doubt anyone can, but working towards a better system would keep me sane. Specifically, gently but continually advising the members and employees of the makerspace to consider the decisions they are making regarding the interconnected collection of 'wares. -Arlo *PostScript*: Why did you choose the Hackerspaces wiki for your writings? I see you started on Ward's Wiki, then moved those articles over. Your account has lately accounted for upwards of half of the edits in Special:Recent, which would be an amazing revival of a mildly dead wiki & associated community (the Jabber always has a bunch of lurkers, not much chatter), but you are editing your pages which are basically not edited by anyone else, and I have no idea about their readership. It does not really bother me, but it does make me curious. Why not dedicate your own wiki?

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 05:34:23PM +0000, James Hemsing wrote:

I looked long and hard for am ARM based system with u-boot (objective: FOSS all the way down), but one cannot be found with dual gig-E for less than $200, much less one with Mini PCI-E slots and expandable RAM. (Any VCs out there want to start a company making MIPS/ARM FOSS routers with dual gig-E and mini PCI-E? I am a system board designer...)

What's the downside to the Atheros mips SoC routers with u-boot? Is there some big advantage to ARM in this scenario? Or is price the issue? The Netgear WNDR7/800s have a great big sticker price, but I recommended one to a coworker last month and he picked one up on ebay for $19. And I'm pretty sure my previous router a Buffalo ( WHR-HP-G300N I think) also an Atheros SoC with u-boot was barely over $50, but I bought it several years ago so maybe availability is low, or I could be mis-remembering pricing. -- sam (Not a VC)

On Thu, 17 Mar 2016 17:34:23 +0000 James Hemsing <jhemsing@gmail.com> wrote:

(Any VCs out there want to start a company making MIPS/ARM FOSS routers with dual gig-E and mini PCI-E? I am a system board designer...)

Who needs a VC when you got Kickstarter and Indiegogo? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/augustgermar/anonabox-a-tor-hardware-ro... Mars -- ============================================================= J. Marsden DeLapp, PE President DeLapp & Associates, Inc. dba DeLapp Engineering. Providing lighting and power planning, design and analysis services for commercial, industrial and large residential facilities. 1190 Harrison Road Ste 3a Santa Fe NM 87507 (505) 983-5557 http://DeLapp.com =============================================================

On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 10:32:51AM -0600, threespace.xyz wrote:

Side note, how many of us NMGLUGers out there are running some sort of FLOSS on their wi-fi router? I'm just curious, particularly about your opinion on the FCC policy from last year restricting the use of open source firmware on routers. I've been looking at setting up a NetGear WNDR3800 with LibreCMC and have only recently become aware of the FCC restrictions, which I find rather interesting.

I was gifted a WNDR3800, running openwrt. It replaced a similar MIPS/Atheros/GigE box. *They are great.* I've been interested in the LibreCMC fork, what non-free stuff are they removing? -- sam