Mark, OEMs like Dell and Toshiba do really good when it comes to getting a silent system (even if it does have fans and stuff). However, since they tailor all their equipment to work with Microsoft, sometimes getting GNU/FOSS to accept it as easily is a challenge. Going pure whitebox, while I find absolutely entertaining, could mean that you have slight noise issues (had a Corsair Gaming PSU that would whine constantly, to an otherwise silent PC). Buying a refurbished has, now, made me a fan of 3 of my last 3 refurbished purchases. I just got a laptop, new MSRP $1699, refurbished for $199, and added $50 worth of upgrades to it. An Intel processor is often labeled "Core Duo" or "Core Quad" - that's your real physical subprocessors. The CPU you are handling now is just an enclosure for many processing cores. When you add HyperThreading on it, it's only a further subset of a real core - it's not a full CPU core in of itself. Duos come with 2 cores, hyperthreading gives you 4 executing subprocessors. Core Quad comes with 4 cores, and hyperthreading gives you 8 executing subprocessors. A wikipedia or other google search might have better terminology :) Back to the choice on OEM vs shelved PCs vs do-it-yourself; all depends on what you are comfortable with. I'll happily lend a hand or phone call if you get stuck. OEMs probably be the most restrictive, unless their product page CLEARLY defines that it's pure F/OSS, it might need binary blobs to work. Shelved PCs (like the ready-to-use PCs such as the Intel NUC) that might be fanless mean that they aren't very fast, and limited hardware spec wise. Maybe only able to use 4GB ram instead of 8/16/32GB ram, maybe only 32-bit and not 64-bit, etc. They also might be sold with a Windows COA meaning you're BUYING windows, whether you put it on or not. Whitebox is the ONLY one that can be SURE that it's exactly what you want. You can get some tiny footprints too, look at the Mini-ITX form factor. The smaller you go though, the MORE you have to be alert and aware that cooling MUST be important. Otherwise you'll cook your own components. Again, I'll help, if you want. You mentioned 8 core and 32GB ram - that's gonna be a sizable box (mini-ATX), and spendy too. I could see about $350 for the CPU, and $200 for RAM there, motherboard around $200, case that will fit it, and properly cool it - about $100. These are not prices I found an item for; these are prices probably in the range of what you asked for. You might want more than a basic keyboard/mouse, for $100 or so, and a monitor - cheapies for $50, high end for $200+. Everyone you will speak with will have OEMs they prefer, OEMs they hate, OEMs they have no preference for. Dell is one I loathe and hate very very much. Toshiba (as Arlo mentioned) is neutural with me. I have used them, but not extensively. I've used HP desktops and laptops before; and love them. Lenovo (the consumer side of IBM) laptops are solid too, but with a pricetag to match. Feel free to keep me/us in the loop, I'll help you when I can. --Tim If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door. "I can" is a way of life. More and Bigger is not always Better. The road to success is always uphill. Life isn't about finding yourself, it's about creating yourself. From: Mark Galassi <mark@galassi.org> To: NMGLUG org mailing list <nmglug@nmglug.org> Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2015 6:45 AM Subject: [nmglug] hardware discussion: desktops, high performance, possibly fanless Dear nmglugers, I occasionally have to purchase a computer and find myself hampered by my lack of passion for keeping up to date on hardware details and what they mean. Until now I always had my employer buy the computers I used for massive software development (emacs, gcc, tons of VMs for highly parallel execution and release-engineering/testing -- huge memory/cpu requirement). I would only keep a modest computer for personal use, since software development is almost all that I do. I now need to get a desktop computer for some on-the-side software development I will be doing and I have to purchase it mself, so I need to be more careful about cost but I still want to get work done. I also care about things like noise. I have seen the Shuttle fanless computers, and the Intel NUC, and they seem very cute. But can they be beefed up to 8 cores and 32gig of RAM? Should I just go with the appropriate Dell? And talking about specs, what does a core mean anyway these days? In the days of hyperthreading it appears that /proc/cpuinfo can give twice as many cores as the hardware specs, but with half the gigahertz. I'm not asking anyone to actually explain it -- what I'm asking is if there is a small set of numbers labeled on h/w which will give me an idea of single-taks performance and parallel performance. As a lesser plus can one get something with free firmware without going down a rabbit hole of time spent sorting it out or way too much cost? So, does anyone have suggestions on what h/w to seek on Amazon? _______________________________________________ nmglug mailing list nmglug@lists.nmglug.org http://lists.nmglug.org/listinfo.cgi/nmglug-nmglug.org