NMGLUGers, We had a good meeting with 5 in attendance via jitsy. In no particular order I will jive some notes: Converting MacBks: we noted this can be frustrating. I have worked with the desktop products, but not the laptops. I found Rods Books most helpful https://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/ is the link to the rEFInd pages. This is Rod's boot manager (not loader) that helps to allow booting of external media. the use of blacklists is a problem built into the products in question. At this point I have given up on doing any attempts in this area. The proprietary parts and bridges built to frustrate the repair and conversions leave little leeway for progress. Buying a laptop at a good price: I purchased a laptop for under $100 on Ebay. My process is to think about repair and use. I wanted a multi-core, multi-thread processor, at least 4 GB ram and an accessible HDD. I found a refurbished Dell Latitude and it was delivered with 8 GB ram and a slightly newer version than listed. No webcam, hefty at about 5 lbs., but portable around my apartment or to a cafe. Others recommended an Asus VivoBook 14"; a currently available machine at retail outlets. I confess, my personal approach has been to rehab machines 10-5 yrs old for price reasons. I have also helped others repair/extend life of their hardware on a budget. Several seniors are using Ubuntu or LinuxMint with my help and occasional interventions. Thunderbird Mail Reader: Mark suggested that lack of support and general cumbersome settings makes most mail readers difficult for basic users. I agree, but I have one user who prefers Thunderbird to web/browser login to mail. I did not mention it but too many older users rely on the computer to save passwords, so they can forget them. Difficulties do arise from this. As a somewhat promiscuous user of various hardware I have noticed that my web-based email will alert me when I log in from a new machine or visit someone and use an alternate OS. They certainly are keeping track of these details and letting me know. On February 16 the plan is to meet at Violet Crown in Santa Fe. At least two of those present agreed to be there. Mark your calendar for this date if you can attend. In-person meetings are more fun. Thank you, Ted P