Learning about options for installing programs, help please
Hi NMGLUG folks, I would like some explanations about the advantages and disadvantages of different approaches to installing programs on debian. I've heard various ideas, and I've tried different protocols for installing. I'd like now to have a better comprehension about this topic. In general, I'm finding that the CLI works best, but there are still many options. For example, one way to install a program is from apt. What does that mean? Is it related to typing in the CLI something like sudo apt install ... ? Is it related to the etc/apt folder? What are the pros/cons? Another way to install is into home bin. What does that mean? Is it related to the home/bin folder? Where are the programs coming from if installed using apt or not from apt. How safe are programs from outside the repository? Which places are safer than others? Does it make a difference which folder on my hard drive where the programs are installed to? The above questions might be great questions, or they may not be so good. I hope that it is clear the type of info and the type of comprehension I'm looking for. I've tried an online search, but what I've found so far is a very basic instruction on which commands to use. If there is a good written resource at the level that I'm learning, that would be great. LeRoy -- I am the Love of God, no matter what. LeRoy Diener 213-LEROYIZ 213-537-6949 www.leroydiener.com/
Hey LeRoy, I'm sure somebody will be able to give a really good response before I can give a response. If not, I'm welcome to explain what options you have to install software these days on Linux (Debian in your case). It's kinda complicated, so I won't have the proper time to write something out just yet. I'll write another email about the details on how to join, and will send that shortly. ~ Jared On Dec 1 2020 8:07 AM, LeRoy Diener wrote:
Hi NMGLUG folks,
I would like some explanations about the advantages and disadvantages of different approaches to installing programs on debian. I've heard various ideas, and I've tried different protocols for installing. I'd like now to have a better comprehension about this topic. In general, I'm finding that the CLI works best, but there are still many options.
For example, one way to install a program is from apt. What does that mean? Is it related to typing in the CLI something like sudo apt install ... ? Is it related to the etc/apt folder? What are the pros/cons? Another way to install is into home bin. What does that mean? Is it related to the home/bin folder?
Where are the programs coming from if installed using apt or not from apt. How safe are programs from outside the repository? Which places are safer than others? Does it make a difference which folder on my hard drive where the programs are installed to?
The above questions might be great questions, or they may not be so good. I hope that it is clear the type of info and the type of comprehension I'm looking for. I've tried an online search, but what I've found so far is a very basic instruction on which commands to use. If there is a good written resource at the level that I'm learning, that would be great.
LeRoy
-- I am the Love of God, no matter what. LeRoy Diener 213-LEROYIZ 213-537-6949 www.leroydiener.com/ [1]
Links: ------ [1] http://www.leroydiener.com/
_______________________________________________ nmglug mailing list nmglug@lists.nmglug.org http://lists.nmglug.org/listinfo.cgi/nmglug-nmglug.org
LeRoy Diener writes:
For example, one way to install a program is from apt. What does that mean? Is it related to typing in the CLI something like sudo apt install ... ? Is it related to the etc/apt folder? What are the
apt is a program, used to install software on Debian-derived systems. (You can verify that by typing which apt; which will show that apt is /usr/bin/apt). You can run it to install packages (apt install), to update the system (apt update && apt upgrade or dist-upgrade), and for various other functions. apt originally stands for "Advanced Package Tool", and it's also used as a general name for the way Debian packages software, and all the programs that support it (in addition to apt, there are lots of helpers like apt-cache, aptitude, apt-file, dpkg, synaptic and on and on). You can read more about the general use on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APT_(software) Some of those programs build in extra stuff: e.g. aptitude has nicer searching than apt-cache and different dependency management from /usr/bin/apt, while synaptic has a GUI for people who aren't comfortable running in the command line. But even if you use some of these tools, e.g. Ubuntu's package manager GUI, you're still "using apt" underneath.
pros/cons?
If I'm on a Debian system, I always install software using apt unless there's a good reason not to. That way, when I update my system, I automatically get updates for every apt-installed package. Some reasons that would lead me to install a program some other way than apt: - not available in apt, either because it's proprietary (e.g. Zoom) or because nobody has packaged it - the version in the distro I'm running is too old, and I need features or bugfixes that come with a more recent version - I plan to contribute to the package, so I need the cutting edge version built from source
Another way to install is into home bin. What does that mean? Is it related to the home/bin folder?
You can, optionally, create a directory named "bin" inside your home directory -- so you could refer to it as ~/bin, $HOME/bin, or /home/your-user-name/bin -- and add it to your PATH, the environment variable that controls where the system looks for executable programs. In my ~/bin, I mostly put programs I wrote myself, and a few scripts I downloaded from a trusted source. It isn't somewhere I typically install downloaded software packages.
Where are the programs coming from if installed using apt or not from apt.
When you install using apt, the programs are almost always coming from your Linux distro's repositories for the version of the distro you're running (e.g. Ubuntu 20.04, Debian Wheezy). You can choose to add additional repositories outside the distro, but that's fairly unusual and something you have to do deliberately. For instance, some people make PPAs ("Personal Package Archive") for Ubuntu to distribute newer versions of certain programs than the ones Debian distributes.
How safe are programs from outside the repository? Which places are safer than others?
Programs from outside the repository are only as safe as the place you're getting them. For instance, if I download firefox from mozilla.org, I figure that's pretty safe; if mozilla.org got compromised it would be all over the news and I'd hear about it. But if someone on an IRC channel says "Hey, there's a great program you can download from harrysprograms.com", that's obviously not safe. You have to use your own judgement and common sense when downloading out-of-distro packages. Some sources can be misleading. For instance, Python programs can be installed using pip, perl programs using cpan, ruby programs using gems; you would think these should be safe because they're coming from the organization behind Python or Perl or Ruby, but they're not really, because anyone can upload programs to those systems. That's also true of the AUR system in Arch Linux. So again, you have to use common sense: is it a program a lot of people seem to use and trust? Has it been around for a long time?
Does it make a difference which folder on my hard drive where the programs are installed to?
No. If you're running it, you're running it, regardless of where it lives on your file system. ...Akkana
NMGLUGers, I use both 'apt' on cli and Synaptic(GUI) for installing packages. If I know the package name and how it fits into my system the cli is quicker and direct. I have usually reviewed the repositories in /etc/apt/sources.list; and have a sense of the differences between them. However, if I am in doubt or do not know the package name, but do know what area I need to have function more I use Synaptic and rely on its Search function and the brief descriptions of each package. A recent instance of this was a search for Libreoffice clipart that is free and compatible with my sources.list. While there is a vast amount of free and non-free clipart in the wider world, in Synaptic I could count on not getting caught up in ambiguous copyright or hidden hooks or incompatibilities. It is a trivial example I am sure, but gives an example of how the GUI aids me when I am short on other knowledge. I hope to see a few of us tonight at our Virtual meeting. Thank you, Ted P. On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 11:01 AM Akkana Peck <akkana@shallowsky.com> wrote:
LeRoy Diener writes:
For example, one way to install a program is from apt. What does that mean? Is it related to typing in the CLI something like sudo apt install ... ? Is it related to the etc/apt folder? What are the
apt is a program, used to install software on Debian-derived systems. (You can verify that by typing which apt; which will show that apt is /usr/bin/apt).
You can run it to install packages (apt install), to update the system (apt update && apt upgrade or dist-upgrade), and for various other functions.
apt originally stands for "Advanced Package Tool", and it's also used as a general name for the way Debian packages software, and all the programs that support it (in addition to apt, there are lots of helpers like apt-cache, aptitude, apt-file, dpkg, synaptic and on and on). You can read more about the general use on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APT_(software)
Some of those programs build in extra stuff: e.g. aptitude has nicer searching than apt-cache and different dependency management from /usr/bin/apt, while synaptic has a GUI for people who aren't comfortable running in the command line. But even if you use some of these tools, e.g. Ubuntu's package manager GUI, you're still "using apt" underneath.
pros/cons?
If I'm on a Debian system, I always install software using apt unless there's a good reason not to. That way, when I update my system, I automatically get updates for every apt-installed package.
Some reasons that would lead me to install a program some other way than apt: - not available in apt, either because it's proprietary (e.g. Zoom) or because nobody has packaged it - the version in the distro I'm running is too old, and I need features or bugfixes that come with a more recent version - I plan to contribute to the package, so I need the cutting edge version built from source
Another way to install is into home bin. What does that mean? Is it related to the home/bin folder?
You can, optionally, create a directory named "bin" inside your home directory -- so you could refer to it as ~/bin, $HOME/bin, or /home/your-user-name/bin -- and add it to your PATH, the environment variable that controls where the system looks for executable programs.
In my ~/bin, I mostly put programs I wrote myself, and a few scripts I downloaded from a trusted source. It isn't somewhere I typically install downloaded software packages.
Where are the programs coming from if installed using apt or not from apt.
When you install using apt, the programs are almost always coming from your Linux distro's repositories for the version of the distro you're running (e.g. Ubuntu 20.04, Debian Wheezy). You can choose to add additional repositories outside the distro, but that's fairly unusual and something you have to do deliberately. For instance, some people make PPAs ("Personal Package Archive") for Ubuntu to distribute newer versions of certain programs than the ones Debian distributes.
How safe are programs from outside the repository? Which places are safer than others?
Programs from outside the repository are only as safe as the place you're getting them. For instance, if I download firefox from mozilla.org, I figure that's pretty safe; if mozilla.org got compromised it would be all over the news and I'd hear about it. But if someone on an IRC channel says "Hey, there's a great program you can download from harrysprograms.com", that's obviously not safe. You have to use your own judgement and common sense when downloading out-of-distro packages.
Some sources can be misleading. For instance, Python programs can be installed using pip, perl programs using cpan, ruby programs using gems; you would think these should be safe because they're coming from the organization behind Python or Perl or Ruby, but they're not really, because anyone can upload programs to those systems. That's also true of the AUR system in Arch Linux. So again, you have to use common sense: is it a program a lot of people seem to use and trust? Has it been around for a long time?
Does it make a difference which folder on my hard drive where the programs are installed to?
No. If you're running it, you're running it, regardless of where it lives on your file system.
...Akkana _______________________________________________ nmglug mailing list nmglug@lists.nmglug.org http://lists.nmglug.org/listinfo.cgi/nmglug-nmglug.org
Semantics can be an obstacle. I opened Synaptic after reading your post and searched for "clip art". I got a lot of results, none of which appeared to be clip art but when I tried again, searching instead for "clipart", I got specific and usable results. When I'm looking for an application for a specific purpose I don't normally begin with Synaptic. I begin with google. Of course if you google "free clipart for LibreOffice" you'll need to pack a lunch because it'll take a while to screen the results. It's a bit of a mixed blessing. :) Of course if I were a total novice wanting to make a fancy poster and searched "Poster software for Linux", I'd get fairly useful results. In either case, the answer you get is only as good as the question you ask. My point is simply that if you can't get an answer to your question, consider rephrasing the question. :) On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 1:57 PM Ted Pomeroy <ted.pome@gmail.com> wrote:
NMGLUGers, I use both 'apt' on cli and Synaptic(GUI) for installing packages. If I know the package name and how it fits into my system the cli is quicker and direct. I have usually reviewed the repositories in /etc/apt/sources.list; and have a sense of the differences between them. However, if I am in doubt or do not know the package name, but do know what area I need to have function more I use Synaptic and rely on its Search function and the brief descriptions of each package. A recent instance of this was a search for Libreoffice clipart that is free and compatible with my sources.list. While there is a vast amount of free and non-free clipart in the wider world, in Synaptic I could count on not getting caught up in ambiguous copyright or hidden hooks or incompatibilities. It is a trivial example I am sure, but gives an example of how the GUI aids me when I am short on other knowledge. I hope to see a few of us tonight at our Virtual meeting. Thank you, Ted P.
On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 11:01 AM Akkana Peck <akkana@shallowsky.com> wrote:
LeRoy Diener writes:
For example, one way to install a program is from apt. What does that mean? Is it related to typing in the CLI something like sudo apt install ... ? Is it related to the etc/apt folder? What are the
apt is a program, used to install software on Debian-derived systems. (You can verify that by typing which apt; which will show that apt is /usr/bin/apt).
You can run it to install packages (apt install), to update the system (apt update && apt upgrade or dist-upgrade), and for various other functions.
apt originally stands for "Advanced Package Tool", and it's also used as a general name for the way Debian packages software, and all the programs that support it (in addition to apt, there are lots of helpers like apt-cache, aptitude, apt-file, dpkg, synaptic and on and on). You can read more about the general use on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APT_(software)
Some of those programs build in extra stuff: e.g. aptitude has nicer searching than apt-cache and different dependency management from /usr/bin/apt, while synaptic has a GUI for people who aren't comfortable running in the command line. But even if you use some of these tools, e.g. Ubuntu's package manager GUI, you're still "using apt" underneath.
pros/cons?
If I'm on a Debian system, I always install software using apt unless there's a good reason not to. That way, when I update my system, I automatically get updates for every apt-installed package.
Some reasons that would lead me to install a program some other way than apt: - not available in apt, either because it's proprietary (e.g. Zoom) or because nobody has packaged it - the version in the distro I'm running is too old, and I need features or bugfixes that come with a more recent version - I plan to contribute to the package, so I need the cutting edge version built from source
Another way to install is into home bin. What does that mean? Is it related to the home/bin folder?
You can, optionally, create a directory named "bin" inside your home directory -- so you could refer to it as ~/bin, $HOME/bin, or /home/your-user-name/bin -- and add it to your PATH, the environment variable that controls where the system looks for executable programs.
In my ~/bin, I mostly put programs I wrote myself, and a few scripts I downloaded from a trusted source. It isn't somewhere I typically install downloaded software packages.
Where are the programs coming from if installed using apt or not from apt.
When you install using apt, the programs are almost always coming from your Linux distro's repositories for the version of the distro you're running (e.g. Ubuntu 20.04, Debian Wheezy). You can choose to add additional repositories outside the distro, but that's fairly unusual and something you have to do deliberately. For instance, some people make PPAs ("Personal Package Archive") for Ubuntu to distribute newer versions of certain programs than the ones Debian distributes.
How safe are programs from outside the repository? Which places are safer than others?
Programs from outside the repository are only as safe as the place you're getting them. For instance, if I download firefox from mozilla.org, I figure that's pretty safe; if mozilla.org got compromised it would be all over the news and I'd hear about it. But if someone on an IRC channel says "Hey, there's a great program you can download from harrysprograms.com", that's obviously not safe. You have to use your own judgement and common sense when downloading out-of-distro packages.
Some sources can be misleading. For instance, Python programs can be installed using pip, perl programs using cpan, ruby programs using gems; you would think these should be safe because they're coming from the organization behind Python or Perl or Ruby, but they're not really, because anyone can upload programs to those systems. That's also true of the AUR system in Arch Linux. So again, you have to use common sense: is it a program a lot of people seem to use and trust? Has it been around for a long time?
Does it make a difference which folder on my hard drive where the programs are installed to?
No. If you're running it, you're running it, regardless of where it lives on your file system.
...Akkana _______________________________________________ nmglug mailing list nmglug@lists.nmglug.org http://lists.nmglug.org/listinfo.cgi/nmglug-nmglug.org
_______________________________________________ nmglug mailing list nmglug@lists.nmglug.org http://lists.nmglug.org/listinfo.cgi/nmglug-nmglug.org
Don Crowder writes:
Semantics can be an obstacle. I opened Synaptic after reading your post and searched for "clip art". I got a lot of results, none of which appeared to be clip art but when I tried again, searching instead for "clipart", I got specific and usable results. When I'm looking for an application for a specific purpose I don't normally begin with Synaptic. I begin with google. Of course if you google "free clipart for LibreOffice" you'll need
Being a command-line girl, I like using grep to winnow down search choices. I find it a lot faster than typing lots of repeated patterns into Google or Synaptic. You can search with either apt-cache search or aptitude search; I prefer aptitude. If you want something that includes both "clip" and "art" but you're not sure whether it's clipart, clip art, clip-art or what, you could do this: $ aptitude search clip | grep art p openclipart - Open Clip Art Library p openclipart-libreoffice - clip art for OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice gallery p openclipart-png - clip art in PNG format p openclipart-svg - clip art in SVG format The letter at the beginning of the line indicates whether it's installed or not. If it was installed it would say "i"; anything else means it's not installed or partially installed (details are in man aptitude, but I never remember, so I just look for i or not-i). ...Akkana
Arkana,good info. I should hang out with you more. :) On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 3:24 PM Akkana Peck <akkana@shallowsky.com> wrote:
Don Crowder writes:
Semantics can be an obstacle. I opened Synaptic after reading your post and searched for "clip art". I got a lot of results, none of which appeared to be clip art but when I tried again, searching instead for "clipart", I got specific and usable results. When I'm looking for an application for a specific purpose I don't normally begin with Synaptic. I begin with google. Of course if you google "free clipart for LibreOffice" you'll need
Being a command-line girl, I like using grep to winnow down search choices. I find it a lot faster than typing lots of repeated patterns into Google or Synaptic.
You can search with either apt-cache search or aptitude search; I prefer aptitude. If you want something that includes both "clip" and "art" but you're not sure whether it's clipart, clip art, clip-art or what, you could do this:
$ aptitude search clip | grep art p openclipart - Open Clip Art Library p openclipart-libreoffice - clip art for OpenOffice.org/LibreOffice gallery p openclipart-png - clip art in PNG format p openclipart-svg - clip art in SVG format
The letter at the beginning of the line indicates whether it's installed or not. If it was installed it would say "i"; anything else means it's not installed or partially installed (details are in man aptitude, but I never remember, so I just look for i or not-i).
...Akkana _______________________________________________ nmglug mailing list nmglug@lists.nmglug.org http://lists.nmglug.org/listinfo.cgi/nmglug-nmglug.org
participants (5)
-
ABQLUG -
Akkana Peck -
Don Crowder -
LeRoy Diener -
Ted Pomeroy