Fwd: Google Contacts (from Re: Will curiosity kill my cat? What is this?)
On 1/10/19 10:37 AM, Akkana Peck wrote:
Tom Ashcraft writes:
I am hooked but not enthusiastic about the new device (Moto G6, Ting). Google and Android totally creep me out, but I think I've got that aspect as constrained as is reasonably possible. (Synced Contacts being the really horrible, notable exception.) You don't need to sync your contacts either, if you don't want to; Android still works with local/only contacts. Though of course, *we shouldn't assume that means Google doesn't know our contacts.* Thanks for the response, Akkana, Though I've tried, I've yet figure out how to actually get the local-contacts-only thing to work. Perhaps you have something specific in mind that due to lack of skill or experience I've yet to discover.
My concerns with Google Contacts are: 1) that everything that I could find and try from Google PlayStore, including apps returned when I placed 'F-Droid' in the search fields, all linked back to requiring permissions to access Google Contacts 2) that other people who place my phone number in their own Google Contacts (most people who use Android phones) are already building a map of all my personal associations for Google without my knowledge or permission. Even if I happen to find some way to be stubborn, ornery, or smart enough to get around the situation, there still remains the "tyranny of the default" to which most people will necessarily acquiesce, wittingly or not: Google contacts and PlayStore apps sync automatically if you have an Android phone and a Gmail account. So far, no functional app or strategy I can find *anywhere* (other than memorizing phone numbers) provides a dialer that will work without a Google-associated contacts list. But perhaps transfer of information between Google and independent apps really does only go one way; that is, for some unknown innocuous reason all the apps consistently just have to know what information of mine Google happens to have if I am to be afforded the privilege of using any of them. Really? Why should the functionality of an app have to be conditioned on whether or not I give it permission to access Google Contacts? Why should the app need that if I don't? What is the problem with having separate groups of contacts? Why should the developer of an independent app care? I think for the most part the answers are that Google simply doesn't want such things to happen, that Google is looking at everything I have whether I like it or not. Possibly I could find some way to split-view the screen with both a phone dialer and a .txt file of names and numbers. If that can be done, I don't yet know how. The situation as I currently understand it strikes me as being analogous being able to pull the shades on your living room windows but having no curtains and a ladder outside your bathroom window. Another analogy is that if someone goes on the plaza of the Taos Pueblo with a camera that person will typically be told they can't take any pictures of anyone, but then the person hides behind a bush or something and takes pictures anyway. All of which sucks. Please, someone, tell me how I'm wrong, that I'm making stupid mistakes, that you know things I don't. Tom
Tom. In fact I keep a pdf in external memory on a phone. You must create a file to begin with, but I had one on a computer which I exported to the phone. And w/ a little practice can talk on phone and view the file at the same time. It does not auto dial, but is handy for the odd old number I've not put into my contacts. Just a thought, Ted P. On Thu, Jan 10, 2019, 3:34 PM Tom Ashcraft <trailerdog234@comcast.net> wrote:
On 1/10/19 10:37 AM, Akkana Peck wrote:
Tom Ashcraft writes:
I am hooked but not enthusiastic about the new device (Moto G6, Ting). Google and Android totally creep me out, but I think I've got that aspect as constrained as is reasonably possible. (Synced Contacts being the really horrible, notable exception.) You don't need to sync your contacts either, if you don't want to; Android still works with local/only contacts. Though of course, *we shouldn't assume that means Google doesn't know our contacts.* Thanks for the response, Akkana, Though I've tried, I've yet figure out how to actually get the local-contacts-only thing to work. Perhaps you have something specific in mind that due to lack of skill or experience I've yet to discover.
My concerns with Google Contacts are:
1) that everything that I could find and try from Google PlayStore, including apps returned when I placed 'F-Droid' in the search fields, all linked back to requiring permissions to access Google Contacts
2) that other people who place my phone number in their own Google Contacts (most people who use Android phones) are already building a map of all my personal associations for Google without my knowledge or permission.
Even if I happen to find some way to be stubborn, ornery, or smart enough to get around the situation, there still remains the "tyranny of the default" to which most people will necessarily acquiesce, wittingly or not: Google contacts and PlayStore apps sync automatically if you have an Android phone and a Gmail account.
So far, no functional app or strategy I can find *anywhere* (other than memorizing phone numbers) provides a dialer that will work without a Google-associated contacts list.
But perhaps transfer of information between Google and independent apps really does only go one way; that is, for some unknown innocuous reason all the apps consistently just have to know what information of mine Google happens to have if I am to be afforded the privilege of using any of them. Really?
Why should the functionality of an app have to be conditioned on whether or not I give it permission to access Google Contacts? Why should the app need that if I don't? What is the problem with having separate groups of contacts? Why should the developer of an independent app care?
I think for the most part the answers are that Google simply doesn't want such things to happen, that Google is looking at everything I have whether I like it or not.
Possibly I could find some way to split-view the screen with both a phone dialer and a .txt file of names and numbers. If that can be done, I don't yet know how.
The situation as I currently understand it strikes me as being analogous being able to pull the shades on your living room windows but having no curtains and a ladder outside your bathroom window.
Another analogy is that if someone goes on the plaza of the Taos Pueblo with a camera that person will typically be told they can't take any pictures of anyone, but then the person hides behind a bush or something and takes pictures anyway.
All of which sucks.
Please, someone, tell me how I'm wrong, that I'm making stupid mistakes, that you know things I don't.
Tom
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Tom Ashcraft writes:
Though I've tried, I've yet figure out how to actually get the local-contacts-only thing to work. Perhaps you have something specific in mind that due to lack of skill or experience I've yet to discover.
It's not easy to find. I did it when I first got the phone, but it took a lot of tapping around just now to figure out what I did. On Marshmallow (of course every Android version's prefs are completely different, sigh): Settings -> Accounts -> Google That gives you a bunch of checkboxes where you can turn off syncing. I have them all turned off. Then I use the normal Contacts app on the phone, and my contacts all stay on the phone and aren't synced with Google (I just logged into Google from Linux and verified that they say I have no contacts defined).
My concerns with Google Contacts are:
1) that everything that I could find and try from Google PlayStore, including apps returned when I placed 'F-Droid' in the search fields, all linked back to requiring permissions to access Google Contacts
Most of the apps I use don't require Contacts access. If one does, and shouldn't, I do without that app. There are a few exceptions. For instance, the only way I've found to set wallpaper/lockscreen on my Galaxy S5 to a custom image involves running Samsung's Gallery app, which insists on all sorts of permissions it shouldn't need. So when I want to change wallpaper, I grudgingly give it access, change the wallpaper, then go to Apps Settings and revoke the permissions. It's a pain in the tuchas.
2) that other people who place my phone number in their own Google Contacts (most people who use Android phones) are already building a map of all my personal associations for Google without my knowledge or permission.
Yep. That's a problem and there's nothing we can do about it.
So far, no functional app or strategy I can find *anywhere* (other than memorizing phone numbers) provides a dialer that will work without a Google-associated contacts list.
I use the default dialer on the S5, which uses my local non-synced contacts. Of course Samsung or Google may be collecting my data without asking; I can't do anything about that. Some day I hope to find a phone that can run some open-source OS, work with Verizon, and not cost an arm and a leg. So far most of the open-source phone OSes are based in Europe and don't have to worry about people who live in the boonies where Verizon is the only option. ...Akkana
Thanks, Akkana, You've provided me with some useful perspective. Android appears to be a little more locked-down with each new version. I probably should have mentioned earlier that the cat's mostly already out of the bag. That is, after a ridiculous amount of time spent poking and fiddling around with prospective alternatives shortly after I received the new phone, I went ahead and input everything into Google Contacts. Given that I could discover no way to download my old contacts from the ten-dollar dumb phone short of a fairly expensive ($45?) sim card reader with questionable/unmaintained linux support, the ability to just type everything in with a regular computer keyboard was just too much convenience and temptation to resist. Also, there was my sense that the privacy ship has long since sailed. Really, I think most of what I'm trying to do around Google Contacts is lodge some kind of protest against the way things are and have a little funeral for some of the things we've all lost. But as to particulars and comparisons between versions of Android, my new Moto G6 is running Android 8.0 Oreo--in which the menus go Settings>Users & Accounts>Google my username@gmail.com>circular-arrows refresh icon titled 'Account Sync' OR, Settings>Users & Accounts>Automatically sync data (on/off slider). That is, all apps *together* are either auto-sync, or not (whereupon a statement window indicates ach of 88 apps has to be individually updated if auto sync is off...). But if the slider is on, contacts sync whether you want or not. Plus somewhere in the Settings choices is a perfunctory statement that simply says contacts sync automatically. In other words, under Android 8.0 Oreo, you can choose to sync as often as desired. But if you choose not to sync, you will be punished. Another annoyance is that between Kubuntu 18.04 laptop and Android 8,0 phone, file transfers seem to go only one way, i.e. from the phone to the laptop but not from the laptop to the phone. Android directories are visible to Kubuntu with KDE Connect app and Dolphin file manager, but you can't copy or transfer anything in to phone internal storage or USB card--though device mounting, file transfer mode settings (two or three choices depending on media, I think) , sync/charge cable, Bluetooth, and WiFi all appear to be features/possible options that seem to work properly. There is an app called Airdroid that is reputed to work well. Web-based, privacy policy with holes, and an account required, of course. This will be my last choice as anything web-based is exactly what I seek to avoid. The remaining avenue is, hopefully, off-line transfer via a double-ended flash drive (USB 3.0 and mini C). I have a similar gizmo (USB 2.0 and mini B) that works well for a tablet with Android 4.0. Might be a waste of money, but I won't know till I try. On the up side, Ghost Commander file manager app seems to continue to work really well on both Android 4 and 8. On 1/11/19 5:01 PM, Akkana Peck wrote:
Tom Ashcraft writes:
Though I've tried, I've yet figure out how to actually get the local-contacts-only thing to work. Perhaps you have something specific in mind that due to lack of skill or experience I've yet to discover. It's not easy to find. I did it when I first got the phone, but it took a lot of tapping around just now to figure out what I did.
On Marshmallow (of course every Android version's prefs are completely different, sigh): Settings -> Accounts -> Google That gives you a bunch of checkboxes where you can turn off syncing. I have them all turned off. Then I use the normal Contacts app on the phone, and my contacts all stay on the phone and aren't synced with Google (I just logged into Google from Linux and verified that they say I have no contacts defined).
My concerns with Google Contacts are:
1) that everything that I could find and try from Google PlayStore, including apps returned when I placed 'F-Droid' in the search fields, all linked back to requiring permissions to access Google Contacts Most of the apps I use don't require Contacts access. If one does, and shouldn't, I do without that app.
There are a few exceptions. For instance, the only way I've found to set wallpaper/lockscreen on my Galaxy S5 to a custom image involves running Samsung's Gallery app, which insists on all sorts of permissions it shouldn't need. So when I want to change wallpaper, I grudgingly give it access, change the wallpaper, then go to Apps Settings and revoke the permissions. It's a pain in the tuchas.
2) that other people who place my phone number in their own Google Contacts (most people who use Android phones) are already building a map of all my personal associations for Google without my knowledge or permission. Yep. That's a problem and there's nothing we can do about it.
So far, no functional app or strategy I can find *anywhere* (other than memorizing phone numbers) provides a dialer that will work without a Google-associated contacts list. I use the default dialer on the S5, which uses my local non-synced contacts.
Of course Samsung or Google may be collecting my data without asking; I can't do anything about that. Some day I hope to find a phone that can run some open-source OS, work with Verizon, and not cost an arm and a leg. So far most of the open-source phone OSes are based in Europe and don't have to worry about people who live in the boonies where Verizon is the only option.
...Akkana _______________________________________________ nmglug mailing list nmglug@lists.nmglug.org http://lists.nmglug.org/listinfo.cgi/nmglug-nmglug.org
Tom Ashcraft writes:
Another annoyance is that between Kubuntu 18.04 laptop and Android 8,0 phone, file transfers seem to go only one way, i.e. from the phone to the laptop but not from the laptop to the phone.
The only reliable way I've found to move files bidirectionally since they removed usb-storage in KitKat is adb push and pull. You still can't access everywhere on the phone (for instance, there's no reliable way to back up things like contacts or calendar entries), but it works for most files I need to sync, like music, maps and books. Since there's no way to run rsync over adb I wrote an elaborate python script to keep local and phone directories in sync via adb (not posting a link here since it isn't well tested, but if you want to live dangerously, ask). If you have root on your phone, there are lots of other options: backup and sync apps, ssh daemons, rsync daemons, etc. My phone isn't rooted so none of those help, since a non-root Android app can't write outside its own directory. ...Akkana
On 1/12/19 1:14 PM, Akkana Peck wrote:
Tom Ashcraft writes:
Another annoyance is that between Kubuntu 18.04 laptop and Android 8,0 phone, file transfers seem to go only one way, i.e. from the phone to the laptop but not from the laptop to the phone. The only reliable way I've found to move files bidirectionally since they removed usb-storage in KitKat is adb push and pull. You still can't access everywhere on the phone (for instance, there's no reliable way to back up things like contacts or calendar entries), but it works for most files I need to sync, like music, maps and books. Since there's no way to run rsync over adb I wrote an elaborate python script to keep local and phone directories in sync via adb (not posting a link here since it isn't well tested, but if you want to live dangerously, ask).
If you have root on your phone, there are lots of other options: backup and sync apps, ssh daemons, rsync daemons, etc. My phone isn't rooted so none of those help, since a non-root Android app can't write outside its own directory.
...Akkana
All of the above is very interesting, Akkana. Music, maps and books is about all I envision as ever needing to move. Ripped CDs, podcasts and audio books, the occasional large .pdf and .mp3 file are mostly what I care about. I don't need or desire to do any full backups or major syncing. (Well, as an aside, I'll go ahead and throw out for general comment that since I've gone from having Windows 7-and-Linux dual boot machines to Linux machines with Windows 10 in virtual machines only, that access to my iTunes music collection was effectively nuked and now all my music mostly resides only on a deprecated iPod 3 touch. I have yet to figure out a way to move all that material around that actually works reasonably well; that is, how to move all the music off the iPod, into Linux laptop(s) and Android phone SD card. I haven't entirely ruled out physically moving an SD card in and out of the phone, but that option strikes me as being unwise given the exceedingly compact and fragile arrangement.) Your mention of adb and a glance at a quick-and-dirty Duck Duck Go search leads me to believe that it might be worth exploring, but I have no prior familiarity. I know just about enough about scripts and Python to be dangerous, though I might be able to follow explicit instructions or clear examples. My grasp of coding and configuration issues in general is pretty weak, but it does appear that my installed Ghost Commander app can give me all the access to root I might need. I just don't really know what to do with it. Apparently I can ftp with and get an ssh plugin for Ghost Commander too. But again, I don't know that I have the judgement or experience to determine what the most appropriate approaches might be. Further explication and suggestions are welcome from all who might care to offer. Thanks, Tom
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participants (3)
-
Akkana Peck -
Ted Pomeroy -
Tom Ashcraft